Mutation To Do List

A wealth of applications with which you will need to mod Halo 2.
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NotZachary82
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by NotZachary82 »

Image
OwnZ joO wrote:Like
Oh, no.

Facebook invades.
xxpenguinxx
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by xxpenguinxx »

Beta? :D
NotZachary82 wrote:
OwnZ joO wrote:Like
Oh, no.

Facebook invades.
That took me a minute to figure out what you meant.
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Grimdoomer
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Grimdoomer »

0 hour is midnight tonight eastern time. Also, fuck every asshole who labels the god dam raw offsets as mother fucking flotas you suns of bitches I will fuck you in hell.
Don't snort the magic, we need it for the network.
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NotZachary82
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by NotZachary82 »

ok.
KIWIDOGGIE
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by KIWIDOGGIE »

Shut the fuck up...
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NotZachary82
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by NotZachary82 »

Shock.
Shut the fuck up.
Seriously.
Take that shit somewhere else.
-DeToX-
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by -DeToX- »

yo this topic is pretty serious.

anyways, yumm... rebooting with a hacked HV.

glad to see you've progressed.
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Xerax
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Xerax »

Grimdoomer wrote:
Shock120 wrote:i r stupid fag. i think halo 2 vista is the shit. i curse out people who work hard on modding applications because i think im cool. halo 2 xbox is dead. there is no scene. i am the fucking scene. you are all stupid. anyone i dont like is a bitch. i frequently visit 4chan and post pictures of my penis. fuck this shit im going to pc gaming. i mean it. dont try and stop me either. they actually have a real scene. cus i totally know that is. i wouldnt know a community or good game if it smacked the shit out of my stupid ass.

ps i hosting 10th prestige lobby on mw2. jester is a real hacker and he is the shit because he can reverse the hypervisor. he made the fucking jtag yo.
Fixed.
That cracked me up. lmfao
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MTW wrote:don't make me DDoS you.
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Grimdoomer
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Grimdoomer »

Everytime I fix something I find more things that are broken/bad. I've been working on cutting down on the memory mutation uses, and while I have been doing that I've started to realize that I really dislike mutations code all together now. I'm starting to realize that there is so much I can't do with the current code. Building maps is slow, mutation eats up your ram, I tried to make the librarys as independant as possible, and because of the way I did it I'm forced to create small bullshit classes so I can link certain data in between some of the librarys. I'm really considering rewriting mutation from scratch. But then I think, who am I kidding? Memory problems can be fixed easily. But for the other stuff, I'm not sure what to do. I'm gunna make a source backup and play around with some stuff. Looking for advice.
Don't snort the magic, we need it for the network.
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neodos
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by neodos »

Oh yeah that sounds like you're not going to finish it, gotta keep on doing with what you started, just get it working no matter if it eats more memory or takes more time to compile a map, well as long as it doesn't take more than one hour, but whatever is needed man.

Just if you can get maps to compile with tags added or delete, which means recalculating a lot of stuff, especially meta containing offsets to raw or unicode etc, hopefully you can get that working ;)

Plus many people here hope you can make it, it would mean a lot to all of us modders still modding and bring back some retired modders even!
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Eaton
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Eaton »

Honestly Grim, we have learned to mod with broken and inefficient apps. But we use them because they work. Mutation doesn't have to have perfect code and be efficient, it just has to work. At this day and age of H2 modding, that's what everyone wants.

I think most people here just want to be able to build/rebuild maps. I don't think they care whether it noms on their RAM.

I wouldn't recode it, then it will never get done.
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neodos
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by neodos »

Shock120 wrote:I liked the UI, but what you did forget was some stuff from H2EK, notice how some blocks have a name to them?
Also, you should have made text buttons, instead of pictures (not user friendly to noobs).

I never noticed it eating ram, xD maybe I never looked, how much ram does it eat?
Building speed is ok, isn't there anyway to make it use 2 cpu cores? because that would be an easier option than doing multi-core.
Meh don't waste time on multicore stuff.

And for the UI buttons, if you leave your mouse over a button without moving it a little description text of the button pop-up :roll: we're not noobs here anyway.
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Eaton
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Eaton »

neodos wrote:
Shock120 wrote:I liked the UI, but what you did forget was some stuff from H2EK, notice how some blocks have a name to them?
Also, you should have made text buttons, instead of pictures (not user friendly to noobs).

I never noticed it eating ram, xD maybe I never looked, how much ram does it eat?
Building speed is ok, isn't there anyway to make it use 2 cpu cores? because that would be an easier option than doing multi-core.
Meh don't waste time on multicore stuff.

And for the UI buttons, if you leave your mouse over a button without moving it a little description text of the button pop-up :roll: we're not noobs here anyway.
That's called a tooltip. :P
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Grimdoomer
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Grimdoomer »

When compiling a sp map (which only works in the new build) it is about 100mb away from consuming an entire gig of ram. Compiling time was pretty good in the last build, only because I wrote everything to ram and flushed it to a file in the end. But I had to take that out because mutation would consume 1.5gigs of ram and crash with an OutOfMemory exception. So now compiling times are noticably longer, and although you can compile maps without it crashing, you are gunna need atleast two gigs of ram to compile a map that is medium sized.

Compiling a map is not something that can be coded for multiple cores, or even multiple threads really. Although I could create a thread to build the string ids tables and unicode tables while I start to write raw data, if they are not done or half way done by the time the main thread gets to the point where it writes those tables, well then you really don't see a performance gain at all. Memory problems can be addressed, but what I really don't like is how I have these little bs classes to transfer data between classes.

For example, in order to link string ids to the master string id list at build time, I have to supply the StringId object with the master list, as well as the list that tag uses. To do this I created a structure that has a few arrays. I set the arrays and pass it to the StringId object, as well as TagReference and TagIndex objects. This could be fixed by simply enumerating through all the IMetaNode's in the tagdef and manual set the new reference indice, but this defeats the purpose of the underlying system and adds more time onto builds. If I could figure out a way to fix this, without doing something that defeats the underlying system, then I will do it. But until I can do this, I'm going to create a new project, and play around with a new idea that I have for the underlying system.
Don't snort the magic, we need it for the network.
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kornman00
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by kornman00 »

multi-core setups are the way of the foreseeable future so saying 'don't waste your time' is really ignorant. CPU speeds won't be gaining super speed increases like they have. Tag interfacing and cache building can be pretty easily built with parallel and threaded operations. However, the systems need to be designed with such functionality in mind.

You'll always see improvements in old code. You can either make small functional improvements or none at all, or else you'll never finish. You have to set a goal and work towards it and not stray or else you'll never finish. If Bungie made Halo 2 the way they originally planned it, it would have had to come out on the 360 due to how long they would have planned it. But they had a goal set by MS which they had to follow.
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neodos
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by neodos »

So when i said don't waste your time, its because he'd never finish it if he gets into complicated things such as handling multi core processing, we users just search functionality no optimization yet, its more than fast enough at the moment, just to get beta it has taken what a year or more?

I would rather see it compiling maps properly then trying to optimize the speed of compiling for somethign that doesn't compile fine.
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Xerax
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Xerax »

neodos wrote:So when i said don't waste your time, its because he'd never finish it if he gets into complicated things such as handling multi core processing, we users just search functionality no optimization yet, its more than fast enough at the moment, just to get beta it has taken what a year or more?

I would rather see it compiling maps properly then trying to optimize the speed of compiling for somethign that doesn't compile fine.
Why not do both. :shock:
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neodos
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by neodos »

I am talking about priorities.
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CaptainPoopface
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by CaptainPoopface »

I agree that a rewrite or optimization pass is premature. For as long as this project has taken, and the other real-life pressures that inevitably come to bear, I believe diving into the code to make it faster before the program is fully functional will be the death of it. Not only that, but you'll be adding a whole new set of bugs to work out.

If you're trying to use this program as a professional calling card, I think it would be wise to demonstrate an understanding of working with legacy code. From friends in computer programming, I have the clear impression that programmers often spend most of their time working with legacy code that they'd rather rewrite than decipher and fix, but there isn't enough slack in the deadline or budget for an overhaul.

Look at what Troy has been able to do with Entity. He's probably essentially rewritten a lot of it by now, but he has done it in incremental pieces so that our capabilities with the program grow continuously, as opposed to a very long downtime where features keep being added ("scope creep") and we keep hearing about how great it's going to be when it finally is released. And then something comes up in real life and the program never comes out.

If we can only build small maps at first because of memory limitations, that's certainly a good start.
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NotZachary82
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by NotZachary82 »

I say just get it to work first.

If the amount of strength this thing needs to work properly becomes an issue for us, the users, you could optimize it then.

Seriously Grim, I don't think anyone actually cares if it takes 2 hours.
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Grimdoomer
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Grimdoomer »

Stupid bullshit linking classes problem fixed. Did a shit load of work on the core today. I got mutation to the point where the project will compile again, I'll have to test compiling maps, and work out any bugs in the core modifications. Will be working on the memory issues tomorrow. I would like to get another beta out by the end of next week, but idk how close I will be to ready by that time. Me tired, me sleep :]
Don't snort the magic, we need it for the network.
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Click16
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Click16 »

Is the next beta going to be able to create/link tags from outside maps?
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Grimdoomer
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by Grimdoomer »

Good news everyone! Fuck you all!





jk. But I fixed mutation. Took care of all the stupid bullshit classes, and I'm just finishing up the memory problems now. Compiling times have been cut by almost half. Maps are compiling just fine with the new modifications, and around 20ish kbs smaller. String id tables only take one whole second to write now that I don't update the progress bar for them. Mutation can also decompile/compile sp maps with the modifications. I haven't tested them to see if they load or not, but I will test that out later tonight. There is only one bug left in the phmo tag definition that causes the map to freeze. I will spend some time on this bug too. If I haven't anounced the next beta by saterday, then it won't be this week. But I'm counting on another beta release sunday, who knows maybe it will be sooner.
Don't snort the magic, we need it for the network.
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NotZachary82
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by NotZachary82 »

You should add a feature called "Destroy/Mutilate/Break/etc. Map" and have it open up in Entity once it compiles.
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Re: Mutation To Do List

Post by xXF3RcHoXx »

Grimdoomer wrote:Good news everyone! Fuck you all!





jk. But I fixed mutation. Took care of all the stupid bullshit classes, and I'm just finishing up the memory problems now. Compiling times have been cut by almost half. Maps are compiling just fine with the new modifications, and around 20ish kbs smaller. String id tables only take one whole second to write now that I don't update the progress bar for them. Mutation can also decompile/compile sp maps with the modifications. I haven't tested them to see if they load or not, but I will test that out later tonight. There is only one bug left in the phmo tag definition that causes the map to freeze. I will spend some time on this bug too. If I haven't anounced the next beta by saterday, then it won't be this week. But I'm counting on another beta release sunday, who knows maybe it will be sooner.
Seriously Grim, take your time making the app to compile maps correctly, even if it tooks hours, I personally would not mind if it takes 5 hours to compile the map as long as it compiles correctly.

Anyway thanks a lot for still working on it, I came back from a looong "break", I need to get updated.
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