The Official Rant Thread

[Remnant Samurai]

Why does OwnZ joO get a color?

[JacksonCougar]

He annoyed me and yellow sucks.

[Gary]

Agreed, I can't even look at the color.
It burns.

[OwnZ joO]

Rant: Now I just look silly

[DemonicSandwich]

No more political bullshit or I also make your profile unpleasant to look at for a while. *insert serious face*

[Remnant Samurai]

Make a group that's called idiot and put him in it.

lul jk

[Gary]

Agreed.

[DemonicSandwich]

Make a group that's called idiot and put him in it.

He's already in a group and I shant name it as such. Bad looking colors is enough for a short time.

[OwnZ joO]

I really don't see the problem talking about the electoral college... The only argument was somebody suggesting what the original idea of it was. I don't consider that the type of politics that causes endless argument. Regardless I'll drop it because I had said my bit anyway.

As for the idiot comment, it hurts coming from you guys

[JacksonCougar]

Its called mob mentality.

[Tural]

The more people insult each other, the closer to HM the site becomes.

[Remnant Samurai]

This site will most likely never become like halomods for a start there aren't as many people so we pretty much have a close group and pretty much the only arguments that happen is a topic that involves halomods or politics.

I don't know what halomods has been like for quite a while after being ip banned but from the things I heard it's not going to well...


Well back on topic I feel sick and can't be stuffed doing anything.

[Tural]

You strive for more members, there is constant talk of more activity being desired; I'm referring to the fact that nobody is ever punished for anything they say in regards to other members. I've seen one case where someone was truly punished, and that was an extreme case. People are free to harass and demean everyone else with no fear of repercussions. I'm not sure at what point calling a member an idiot and suggesting he be publicly humiliated for it is a reasonable statement in a community that doesn't wish to tear itself apart as their loyal enemy site has. The desire here to not suffer the same fate as Halomods is what is going to cause it to do so. There are a lot of parallels, except it's somewhat backwards here. On Halomods, it started with lack of interest, and evolved into insults. Here I see it starting with harassment, and working its way towards a future of inactivity, even more so than the site has now, and eventual, unremembered death. With complete freedom on the internet, people are always going to fuck up. Guidance and authority is the backbone of site integrity. I, as a new member, would have no desire to come to a community where I see the existing members blatantly flaming each other and the staff of the site permitting it, and publicly shunning people for the sake of humiliating and ostracizing them. Why would I want to subject myself to the possible harassment I see occurring? Certainly I wouldn't take the chance of the unreasonable attacks, knowing that the staff has demonstrated that they won't take action on them. Sometimes your authority needs to be proactive, not reactive. Punish the people for their unreasonable insults, give them a warning, but don't permit them to attack others. The only moderation should not take place after a warning (In this case, people had to be told twice, and still continued, when nobody should have been allowed to after the first time), sometimes people do things and it needs to be taken care of before it gets out of hand, not cleaned up afterwards. This is clearly the case here, where a member pretty much called people who disagreed with him retarded, insinuating that their IQ was below a functioning level, and a very clear warning was given. After that, several more people posted similar messages, no action was taken. Again, another warning was given. At this point, and even before the first warning, the staff could clearly see that the comment that started it should never be allowed to stand, as it only serves to start an argument. Do you think people will be like, "Oh, I see, I am, in fact, retarded. Thank you sir." No, that's stupid. When your members are making this horrendous statements, you need to take action before the issue grows, not after.

Stream of consciousness. Long story short: Make people who harass others shut up, by force if necessary. Remove issues before they start, not 10 warnings later. You know when something will be a problem, and you should take care of it beforehand. The first post should have been edited or removed, not left and the opposition shut out. The intention was not biased, but the result of the warning was. You let someone say their opposition was retarded, and then refused to let that opposition react, making them take that comment and be able to say nothing about it. It's not a fair system. Punishing the opposition now, for the error in judgment of the moderation, is an unreasonable reaction. Granted, this case has the opposition defying a direct warning, but, to be honest, if you let someone call other people retarded, and then punish the people who get insulted for responding, all whilst the insulter walks freely and his message is shown as he wanted, you have to seriously reconsider your priorities. By not editing the first post, you're demonstrating that that sort of thing is okay to say, when it certainly is not. You then punished someone for what, defying a warning? Did he do it disrespectfully? Based on his previous posts, I would say he probably didn't. I didn't see his latter post, but I can infer that it was not nearly as severe as the first post by the insulter was. This is what you consider to be a good system of administration? Punish respectful people, allow disrespectful people to spout their unreasonable bigotry and instigate the entire conflict? Sorry to say, but that's terrible. If Gjsdeath is not punished for his bigotry, you have absolutely no grounds to ostracize OwnZ joO for his respectful disagreement, not even of the politics of the person, so he wasn't even making a personal attack, but just discussing the situation in general. You're directly stating, by actioning OwnZ joO instead, that it is better to be a bigot and make personal attacks than it is to analyze the system of the government, whilst not making a single personal attack. This is completely backwards and, quite frankly, stupid. The actions taken were completely wrong and completely unreasonable, and need to be reversed or equally compensated by action on the instigator. The bias towards people who make blatant attacks on others is the dumbest thing I can imagine in a community that wishes to come together, not fall apart like its predecessor.

People who must be punished if OwnZ joO is punished:
Gjsdeath - Bigotry, stating that people who disagreed with his views are of an inferior intelligence and below the level of a functioning IQ. This is your idea of a community that will not fall apart, and will be stronger than Halomods? Allow people to blatantly fucking insult people, to their faces, then tell the people they're insulting that they're not allowed to respond, and just have to take it? (Even then, if you do that, which you did, the people who were insulted did take it, and what did they get? A kick in the dick is what they got. They allowed themselves to be insulted, because the admins said they had to, and then they got punished for an irrelevant issue. You are taking away their candy, and then when they eat vegetables, you take away all of their food because they were eating when you told them not to. It's a stupid thing to do, any way you look at it. It's completely unfair that you would make him take the insult, and then punish him when he did.)
RaZoR73 - Suggesting that OwnZ joO be publicly labeled an idiot for being respectful in his posts, especially when his posts never attacked his opposition. I don't know how I can stress this any more. OwnZ joO was never attacking people's views, like Gjsdeath was. How can you punish him and not Gjsdeath? I really cannot see any logic, at all. I don't know how to express how completely dumb this looks. I really wish I had words to explain how stupid it is to punish him after he listened to the admins, because he was trying to have a legitimate discussion with someone else, in no way attacking anyone else's views.
Gjsdeath - Punishment extension for the same reason as RaZoR73.

And Gjsdeath/RaZoR73, I suggest you not respond to me, and let the administration do it for you, because this issue is not directed at you, and posting a response to it as though it were is going to instigate another problem. Don't do it, I'm talking to the admins and staff, not you. I don't know the color ranks here, so if you guys are staff, don't post anyways. I'm talking to the two people who did the actions, DS and Jackson. Anyone else need not get involved. This is about the choice of moderating actions, not about the actions that lead to them. Your situations are merely examples to convey the logic, or lack thereof, in the resulting punishment. Don't post. You have to take the comments just like you forced OwnZ joO and anyone else to, you can see how it feels to not be allowed to respond to something when you're being talked about in a negative manner, maybe then you won't do it in the future, and we won't have this problem with the community infighting. Really, don't respond, you'd merely be demonstrating what I'm talking about. I'm serious, don't, no matter how much it takes, use your self-control and don't respond, because I don't want to argue with you, I'm arguing with the staff, you have no involvement in the issue at hand, and we don't need everyone's voice involved in this particular issue. Please, I beg of you, don't make yourselves be the exact sorts of people that cause these problems, for your own sake and mine. The last thing I'd like to see is more arguing. This entire post is about stopping arguments, and it may seem hypocritical that the manner in which I did it is argumentative, but it is not done in a hypocritical way, but rather in a way to stress the importance of avoiding these issues in the future. Avoidance should be starting with you, so refrain from making a rebuttal to this, which isn't directed at you.

So tell me, please, why a member who directly violates a rule written in "The Law" is not only not punished, but their post is left there, even with its obscene accusations, where as a member who goes against a warning (and that's a stretch, because an analysis of government systems is not the same as a political opinion, as such, he wasn't really violating the "No fucking politics," and the like, unless you're going out of your way to be overly-literal and punish him for your own agenda, which is what happened) is almost immediately exiled and publicly shunned? It's not right, no matter how you look at it. Violating "the law" is allowed, but making a post irrelevant, except in the eyes of overly-literal administration looking to make an example out of someone for no legitimate reason, to a warning issued beforehand is not. Let me be the first to apologize for OwnZ joO's posts about how he dislikes a system in place in the government, and let me be the first to endorse Gjsdeath's posts calling OwnZ joO an idiot and calling Democrats retarded. This is completely reasonable, yeah.

Lift the action on OwnZ joO, or punish the other two people. Don't be biased about it. Gjsdeath directly violated a rule written by the staff themselves, and there's no way you could ever claim he didn't, but OwnZ joO never did, and yet the former is allowed to walk, and the latter is shown to be at fault. You must correct the situation or you will prove that you are incapable of having the site show respect for its members. You must look at it objectively, and you have no way to ever justify not doing one or the other, unless you plan to just say "We're staff, we do what we want, how we want," which I hope you do not intend to do. If you do, I think I'll just hang my head dejectedly and wait for the day your site collapses like Halomods, in the same self-destructive community actions. Be a better site, don't permit people to say these things. Action needs to be balanced, if it is to be taken, as it should be. Be fair to your members, and they will be fair to you.

All in all, this is directed at Jackson, as I know he will actually listen. I don't know you, DS, and I don't intend to begin my opinion of you with this argument, as I think that will be a bad first impression. Jackson, you should read this and discuss the information with me later, as I know you are capable of understanding, as you have demonstrated to me in the past. As you read this, I think you will find yourself in a similar position as me.

Holy shit I type a lot. Also, is there a way to see how many times I edited this post? I'm guessing it's around 20, I never feel satisfied with my writing.

[JacksonCougar]

Seeing as how Demonic came in with the duster before I could reexamine the posts; I cannot clearly comment on the flow of commenting and interactions that took place.

My decision to 'punish' Ownz Joo, as I see that is how many of you saw it as under the circumstances, was probably not the best administrative action I could have taken; said simply the action I originally intended was nothing: he called my bluff so I gave him a ugly avatar and a nasty colored name for what would have been the day. The intention was not to punish, but was taken in a more lighthearted attitude from my point of view, something unrelated to his previous posts and directly going back to him replying to my post when there was a clear statement not to do it. The original group name consequently was called 'rebel', with the intent to show the reason behind his newfound avatar and colored name. The rest of the members however thought I was punishing him for making a political statement; whereas I was not. To have those negative overtones and implications cast on him after his sudden change in appearance I found was fairly surprising from the community: I cannot help but think I set him up for it though by singling him out in appearance.

The administration towards the political discussion itself was simply a warning.

Addressing your comments about the administration on Remnant I have only my own feeling to offer up on the issue. Remnant was, in all respects, supposed to be an elitist modding community drawing together talent from halomods so we could work and collaborate on mods in an environment that I would call more enlightened. I say it this way, but I need to clarify; Remnant was not supposed to be a cafe forum: it was intentioned to be a serious discussion board related to modding. Unfortunately it seems the site was founded perhaps a little late in modding: or my previous appearance at halomods made people less than willing to be associated with a site run by me? I cannot say. Whatever the cause the ultimate reality was our own 'China Town' of halomods in many respects. I can see the parallels between Remnant today and Halomods 'yesterday'. I am straying offtopic now: to return to my original train of though I would say that with the goal of Remnant being a modding community at the core and being comprised of intelligent members would have created an environment where little administration would have been needed. While modding you do not get into heated political debates or curse out another member for reasons I do not care to think of now.

I think my train derailed above: oh well; Remnant in my mind has almost stopped serving its original purpose; that purpose was the sharing and exploration of modding and all its aspects. It has been a long time since we have seen a new mod, or even substantial images of a new mod: and almost as long since I have seen a discussion relating to modding in a serious way. On a good day I will not even click on the happiness or rant threads because they do not interest me in any great detail.

Where am I going with this? Unsure. I think I am trying to say that I do not care what happens in the rant thread within the cafe because in my mind it is discussion not related to modding and therefore uninteresting to me.

So my choice not to administrate the political comments was driven by a lack of me caring about the topic itself, and a more generalized lack of interest. Aumaan in all rights should have been the one to stop the discussion, but was instead fueling the discussion. I do not mean to cast aside my own responsibility onto him though.

I have always believed a community is what the members make of it; I do not believe in editing most posts because people are allowed to express their opinions. I guess I am running under the rules I created in my mind for the version of Remnant I wanted Remnant to become: a place where the discussion would not be about politics and instead be about modding; where in the case of modding discussion there should never be a reason to edit out a post if it is wrong, since we learn from mistakes.

I have no idea where this has gone.

Having had the morning to wake up I think I might be able to refine my point: if indeed I have one.

Free speech on remnant is something I treasure. Just as Neodos can say what he feels about Halomods and the staff there, you are free to defend your position. This is where I find things can get lost, because often enough in defending ones position you inadvertently, or purposefully, can end up creating an argument or challenge. Often this is bad because neither side come to an understanding but instead they end up 'digging in their heels'. Something I wish I saw more of, but that does not seem to occur, is two people having a disagreement and politely, without ultimatum, trying to discuss the thought. Too often it turns into a 'I am right, and you are wrong' argument.

As you remarked, and we observed in the case of Ownz Joo, we as a firm 'community' may have a long ways to go. If we can turn on each other at the drop of the pin it is not a good thing, nor something I am proud of. Perhaps I helped fuel this event, but in the same instance my actions towards Ownz Joo were not carried out through malice but as a joke or humorous prank.

In the least I hope from reading this you understand my views on certain issues more clearly.

fin.

[Tural]

ur mum

[Click16]

RANT ON TOO MUCH TO READ! lol

[Gary]

lol, He thought I was staff.
Yea, sorry for braking the rule, I shouldn't of done that.

Maybe we should just censor the words "democrat, republican, obama, McCain", and any others that could relate, that would help some.

Still, I won't be talking about it anymore, and:

Gjsdeath - Bigotry, stating that people who disagreed with his views are of an inferior intelligence and below the level of a functioning IQ.

Yes, because its true.

You idiots.

[Remnant Samurai]

lol, He thought I was staff.
Yea, sorry for braking the rule, I shouldn't of done that.

Maybe we should just censor the words "democrat, republican, obama, McCain", and any others that could relate, that would help some.

Still, I won't be talking about it anymore, and:

Gjsdeath - Bigotry, stating that people who disagreed with his views are of an inferior intelligence and below the level of a functioning IQ.

Yes, because its true.

You idiots.

I honestly lol

[Zieon Eslador]

Remnant is Red.

[Tural]

lol, He thought I was staff.

Incorrect. I was too lazy to go check the groups, so I merely accounted for the possibility so you wouldn't say something dumb through a loophole in my post.

Yes, because its true.

You idiots.

Well you're gay.

[Gary]

Incorrect. I was too lazy to go check the groups, so I merely accounted for the possibility so you wouldn't say something dumb through a loophole in my post.

ah, Eaton also thought I was staff at first.
I like my color.

Well you're gay.

[Grimdoomer]

Ok ladies. This is the Rant Thread, not the say something and get bitched at thread. We all make mistakes and get a little carried away, but we don't start a "my dick is bigger" argument. What do you think this is, HaloMods?

This started out as a joke and some political bullshit. Now it's two idiots yelling at each other that they are gay

[Tural]

This started out as a joke and some political bullshit. Now it's two idiots yelling at each other that they are gay

I thought the idiot/gay part was the joke. Where is the joke that started this? I'm confused.

[Remnant Samurai]

Why don't we all stop this and get back to modding

[JacksonCougar]

This started out as a joke and some political bullshit. Now it's two idiots yelling at each other that they are gay

I thought the idiot/gay part was the joke. Where is the joke that started this? I'm confused.

Interpolate from Grim's comment. He means me making Ownz part of the 'rebel' group.